Often it happens that a person's sin against us is not an aberration, but an expression of something that is an integral part of who they are. Even once we have forgiven them for that action, we find that all our interactions with them have the echoes of that sin within them. We realize that as long as we know this person, it is likely that they will hurt us in the same way again and again.
I love Jennie's article and feel what she's saying, but how much is forgiveness possible when there's no repentance? In the case of someone who, in their very essence, hurts us - someone who is perhaps clueless about the extent of the damage they have done and continue to do - if this person has not repented (expressed responsibility, sorrow and a desire to change) maybe forgiveness is not something that is possible. I'm wondering if we need to look for other biblical instructions for dealing with such a situation. A few ideas: turning the other cheek, loving enemies, praying for those who persecute you, forbearance, getting rid of bitter and angry thoughts, leaving vengence to God...
Such things are not all that different to forgiveness, but they are things that are achievable from one end. If the other person hasn't repented, a real reconciliation and restoration of the relationship that forgiveness implies can't happen.
What do you think?
Simone. I am hearing (and feeling) what you say. Thanks for saying it both here and at SP. And I think I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteBUT.
Did God's forgiveness of us precede our repentance? He loved us first. Does that mean he forgave us first?
When Jesus cried from the cross asking his Father to forgive "them", it seems like the "clueless" murderers were a long way from repenting.
Too hard for me to think about.
yes. good questions.
ReplyDeleteGod loved us first and made forgiveness possible and offers it to us. But we remain unforgiven until we repent. (Though, of course, we will not repent unless God moves our hearts to do so. So it's all God.) There needs to be action from both sides if a relationship is to be real. I think this works between people and God and between people.
But God is the initiator. He doesn't sit back feeling bitter. He comes to us and holds out the offer of forgiveness.
Perhaps we need to go to those who have hurt us, put our grievance out there (how hard is that!) and offer forgiveness.
I think the second situation is tricky. Notice that Jesus didn't call out, 'I forgive you!' from the cross. Crucifying God was an unusually bad sin. Not sure they understood quite what they were doing there. Did God forgive them?
Any thoughts?
This is mostly what the Yancey book "What's so amazing about Grace" is about. Good book...
ReplyDeleteRachael asked almost the same question over at Storian Smol, and I commented there, so I will just nick it and put it here. I actually found the chapter on forgiveness in 'Relationships - A Mess Worth Making' by Tim Lane and Paul Tripp very helpful (and simple) on differentiating between forgiveness and reconciliation. Here, quickly, is a section. They look at Mark 11:25 and Luke 17:3 and say:
ReplyDelete"Which one of these verses is right? They’re both right!
The verses are talking about two different aspects of forgiveness. Mark 11:25 is talking about forgiveness as a heart attitude before God. The context is worship. When I consider someone’s sin as I stand before the Lord, I am called to have an attitude of forgiveness toward the person who sinned against me. This is non-negotiable. I do not have the right to withhold forgiveness and harbour bitterness in my heart. Luke 17:3, on the other hand, is talking about forgiveness as a horizontal transaction between me and the offender. This is often referred to as reconciliation. The point Luke 17:3 makes is that, while I am to have an attitude of forgiveness before the Lord, I can only grant forgiveness to the other person if he repents and admits he has sinned against me. Even if he never does this, I am called to maintain an attitude of forgiveness toward the offender. The vertical aspect of forgiveness is unconditional, but the horizontal aspect depends on the offender admitting guilt and asking for forgiveness."
"Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors....For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." (Matthew 6:12, 14)
ReplyDelete"But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." (Matthew 6:15)
A hard teaching but I think it's pretty clear that it matters not what the other person's attitude to the grievance is - you MUST forgive them. After all, they could be dead - are you going to require that they be brought back to life and made cognisant of their sin and the impact it had before you'll forgive them? None of us would be in our graves very long in that case.
Reconciliation on the other hand is a different thing. To reconcile is "to restore to friendship or harmony". It's a literal impossibility to be reconciled to someone who has a heart attitude of unconcern for you.
I'd definitely recommend hearing the testimony of "The Jellyfish Man" - stung by a jellyfish, dying on his way to hospital he accepted Christ by going through the Lord's prayer as the Lord gave him each line. He wasn't given the next line until he forgave all the people who had ignored his plight and wouldn't help him get to hospital. These were people who actively didn't care if he died - he didn't have time to wait for them to repent.
I'd also recommend the "Boundaries" books by Townsend and Cloud. They are very good at clarifying the differences between carrying our own load (i.e. not shirking the work God has given us), bear one another's burdens (helping others when their load is too heavy through no fault of their own) and being the dumpster for everyone else's relational irresponsibility and therefore the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation.
Simone. Did God forgive them?
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I agree that the crucifiers did not really know who they were crucifying. The Centurion got it after the event.
But I think that the father did answer the prayer of the son. he did forgive them. And the conversions of the 3,000 or so on the Day of Pentecost is the gracious proof.
Without opening a can of worms, I would hope, actually, that God the Father has positively answered all of his son's requests. John 17 is my favourite part of the Bible and if God hasn't answered that prayer then I think we may as well all pack up and go to the pub.
'take this cup from me...'
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the post Simone quoted, but my wife is going to do a book review this weekend for the ladies at church. The book is called "From Forgiven to Forgiving" by Jay E. Adams. It has what I think is a particularly helpful way of understanding what forgiveness is, and is from the perspective that forgiveness cannot occur without repentance.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to hearing it! Maybe I'll borrow the book from her.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I reckon Matthew 18:15 is probably a good paradigm for regaining relationship.
ReplyDeleteI agree.
ReplyDeleteAnd Al. I'm thinking.
Interesting point earlier about the moment Jesus cried "Father forgive them..."(Luke 23:34)..suggesting that Jesus forgave people before they had expressed repentence. I have heard that this finds its fulfillment in Luke's narrative in Acts 2:37cf. After Peter's sermon they are cut to the heart and some repent. This is when they receieve the forgiveness offered by Jesus' death on the corss for their sins. I found this a very helpful thought- affirming that forgiveness is contigent upon repentence.
ReplyDeletethat was my first post. ever. sorry about spelling error. contingent!
ReplyDeletemrs. kutz. well done! A blog comment!
ReplyDeleteGood thought. I look forward to hearing your book review on saturday.
Carsons book Love in Hard Places has a great chapter on Forgiveness (ch 3). It's a free PDF book somewhere online. He says reconcilation presupposes forgiveness but forgiveness does not automatically entail reconciliation because rec is a 2 sided process. Will have another look. Mrs Kutz's book sounds worth borrowing.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Katay has just posted something about this. He thinks that there is a time NOT to forgive - when there is no repentance.
ReplyDeleteYou can read it here: http://apkatay.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/when-not-to-forgive/