I'm not yet persuaded. I see lots of references to latreuein and proskynein, but nothing of leitourgein. I might have missed it. It happens.
But I think the larger question, as Nathan points to in his comments there, is I want to see a conceptual argument given more prominence, and worry less about word studies.
That being said, to be fair, he's trying to cover a whole lot of ground very very briefly, and doing a pretty good job of it.
I went to the Bob Kauflin thingo in Brisbane and found it interesting but frustrating for a number of reasons. Even though I have played and led music in churches for a long time, most recently in an evangelicial Anglican church, this debate has basically passed me by and I'm now seeing that I've arrived in mid (or perhaps late) conversation.
So at the risk of misunderstanding the question completely, while what Philip is saying is interesting it strikes me as being a little beside the point. Framing a question in terms of "what is worship" leads you into a debate about words. The point for me is - whatever you call it, what is appropriate for Christians to do when they get together? The New Testament describes a lot of activities but none of them seem to me to be mandated, rather what is mandated is the manner and spirit in which we do them - in love to one another, in an orderly and decent way, in reverence to God, etc. Have I missed something?
I'm not yet persuaded. I see lots of references to latreuein and proskynein, but nothing of leitourgein. I might have missed it. It happens.
ReplyDeleteBut I think the larger question, as Nathan points to in his comments there, is I want to see a conceptual argument given more prominence, and worry less about word studies.
That being said, to be fair, he's trying to cover a whole lot of ground very very briefly, and doing a pretty good job of it.
it'd be good to see a non-briefing version (ie. longer)
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts Here.
ReplyDeleteAt least the start of my thoughts...
ReplyDeleteThat possibly simultaneously rule me out of my current denomination, and any job in Sydney...
ReplyDeleteNathan - I commented.
ReplyDeletePeter - Yes. I'm reading through some stuff I have the philip wrote a couple of years ago. Sorry I can't send it to you. All drafts for something.
Anthony - Yep. I'm looking forward to the next part.
I went to the Bob Kauflin thingo in Brisbane and found it interesting but frustrating for a number of reasons. Even though I have played and led music in churches for a long time, most recently in an evangelicial Anglican church, this debate has basically passed me by and I'm now seeing that I've arrived in mid (or perhaps late) conversation.
ReplyDeleteSo at the risk of misunderstanding the question completely, while what Philip is saying is interesting it strikes me as being a little beside the point. Framing a question in terms of "what is worship" leads you into a debate about words. The point for me is - whatever you call it, what is appropriate for Christians to do when they get together? The New Testament describes a lot of activities but none of them seem to me to be mandated, rather what is mandated is the manner and spirit in which we do them - in love to one another, in an orderly and decent way, in reverence to God, etc. Have I missed something?