tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post621922423928500164..comments2023-07-18T19:52:35.156+10:00Comments on another something: A question on the Song of SongsSimone R.http://www.blogger.com/profile/05248239853519762027noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-59775886074139360552013-08-06T14:43:37.868+10:002013-08-06T14:43:37.868+10:00Yes, probably not in the pornographic sense, but i...Yes, probably not in the pornographic sense, but it's hard to see how you can really grasp these images without being turned on, and the craftsmanship suggests that this is not an accident.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11272544252649766985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-17041894265907239162013-08-06T10:50:54.701+10:002013-08-06T10:50:54.701+10:00That sounds like the Driscoll interpretation as we...That sounds like the Driscoll interpretation as well.<br /><br />I seem to remember hearing him introduce a sermon on SoS by saying something like "This sermon <i>[or maybe it was series]</i> will make you glad you are married. And if you're not married then it will make you wish you were."<br /><br />I remember thinking at the time that it was a particularly cruel thing to say.Alistair Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099359104986717330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-13904954172581288282013-08-06T10:15:41.273+10:002013-08-06T10:15:41.273+10:00Hi Jon
I didn't say that Song of Songs is not...Hi Jon<br /><br />I didn't say that Song of Songs is not sexual. I agree with you that it is. <br /><br />What I am disagreeing with is that the text itself is intended to be a sexual turn on for the reader.Alistair Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099359104986717330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-79660798849115624102013-08-06T10:02:48.812+10:002013-08-06T10:02:48.812+10:00Alistair of course then there's this:
"Y...Alistair of course then there's this:<br /><br />"Your stature is like that of the palm,<br />and your breasts like clusters of fruit.<br />I said, 'I will climb the palm tree;<br />I will take hold of its fruit.'"<br /><br />Tell me that's not sexual! <br /><br />I'm sure you're well aware of the tradition of interpretation which sees this as a symbolic description of God and Israel/Christ and the Church. This kind of reverses the attitude Joanna alludes to - rather than spiritual activity being repressed sexuality, sexuality is kind of repressed spirituality. Jesus really IS my boyfriend!<br /><br />I think the fact that we find this embarrassing tells us that it's a challenge to our closet Gnosticism, our habit of seeing our relationship with God as nothing to do with our bodies or even our bodies as impediments to that relationship, to be starved and beaten into submission so we can get closer to God.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11272544252649766985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-29391946121670436862013-08-06T00:08:20.480+10:002013-08-06T00:08:20.480+10:00I like that!
'what is the role of the erotic ...I like that!<br /><br />'what is the role of the erotic in the holy life'? Something to be received with thanks?simone rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16626356778188873309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-78443141765482050972013-08-06T00:05:36.430+10:002013-08-06T00:05:36.430+10:00My translation renders it "swear to me.... th...My translation renders it "swear to me.... that you will never awaken love until it is ripe." <br /><br />I don't think this verse has anything to say about having feelings aroused by a text. I think it is a warning against jumping prematurely into a relationship with a person. "For love is as fierce as death, its jealousy bitter as the grave..." Yes, it is wonderful and you want it (the text has made you want it even more!) but patience. Wait until the fruit is ripe. simone rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16626356778188873309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-57975972543270683112013-08-05T21:21:14.637+10:002013-08-05T21:21:14.637+10:00Surely that depends on your interpretation of that...Surely that depends on your interpretation of that verse? In the context of the narrative, that verse seems to be saying that misplaced desire is dangerous. Not that there is no place for desire. It might suggest that the text isn't to be read lightly or without understanding of its purpose. Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657340578955726604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-77643497683976479382013-08-05T17:50:16.367+10:002013-08-05T17:50:16.367+10:00I will need some convincing that a text that inclu...I will need some convincing that a text that includes <br /><br />"Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you by the gazelles and by the does of the field: Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires" <br /><br />is also intended to arouse.Alistair Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099359104986717330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-83706220685729507732013-08-05T17:34:06.639+10:002013-08-05T17:34:06.639+10:00No. It's not meant as one.No. It's not meant as one.Alistair Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099359104986717330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-34284804603165146232013-08-05T17:32:22.733+10:002013-08-05T17:32:22.733+10:00No meaning it was obviously meant as a turn on? Or...No meaning it was obviously meant as a turn on? Or No meaning it's not meant as a turn on?simone rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16626356778188873309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-74112583609838120612013-08-05T17:28:17.293+10:002013-08-05T17:28:17.293+10:001. No
2. 1. No<br /><br />2. Alistair Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099359104986717330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-61593922888442315112013-08-05T17:08:27.095+10:002013-08-05T17:08:27.095+10:00My short answer is yes, but my longer answer is an...My short answer is yes, but my longer answer is another question: 'what is the role of the erotic in the holy life'. Non-Christian historians sometimes like to sneer at early Methodist spiritual devotion as repressed sexuality. I like to annoy them by pointing out that early Methodists would assume that modern sexual devotion is just repressed spirituality. Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657340578955726604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-28353804496169410172013-08-05T13:49:07.787+10:002013-08-05T13:49:07.787+10:00I've written an essay. Just editing it a littl...I've written an essay. Just editing it a little to try and limit the troubled reactions...simone rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16626356778188873309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-911707550436621468.post-16456638545952996762013-08-05T13:40:40.952+10:002013-08-05T13:40:40.952+10:00I personally suspect that a poem that was designed...I personally suspect that a poem that was designed to make you believe that sexual love is as powerful as 8:6 says would be a bit silly if it didn't use the affective elements of the text to do so.*<br /><br />I don't think I'm allowed to find it problematic if it's in the Bible, am I? ;) It's an interesting angle to follow up in SoS, Simone. You going further with it? (pardon the pun)<br /><br />*if you don't get what I mean, that's a yes to q1.Kutzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12993685410486388532noreply@blogger.com